Tuesday, November 13, 2012

For your edification and by way of a challenge


2 comments:

  1. If the USCCB is not willing to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus then why should it be suprised when American Catholics believe Church teachings on abortion and contraceptives can also be changed?

    If non Catholics do not have to be visible members of the Catholic Church for salvation and are still saved, then why do Catholics also not abort and contracep like Protestants, who allegedly are going to be saved according to the USCCB ?

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    USCCB REPORT MAKES ALLOWANCE FOR THE RICHARD CUSHING ERROR

    The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has placed quotations from the Catechism of the Catholic Church relevant to CCC 846 Outside the Church there is No Salvation on the internet. The USCCB does not cite the text of the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Neither does it explain how in its Notificaton on Fr.Peter C.Phan those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto exceptions to everyone needing to enter the Church.

    In none of the quotations from the Catechism of the Catholic Church cited by the USCCB is it said that those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are exceptions to the dogma or Vatican Council II (LG 14,AG 7).Yet this is what the USCCB implied in the Fr.Peter Phan case.

    The USCCB Catechesis and Evangelisation Office probably could not cite the text of the dogma because of the error of Archbishop Richard Cushing. He assumed those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are defacto exceptions to the dogma. This would mean that the baptism of desire is visible to us and we explicitly know cases of those saved in invincible ignorance.Only if this was true would contradict the dogma outside the church there is no salvation. Archbishop Cushing was critical of Fr.Leonard Feeney.(1)


    The USCCB has cited many quotations from the Catechism which affirm the traditional teaching of the Church on the dogma but overall a reader would be left confused since the USCCB is trying to accomodate the Cushing error which requires one to read magisterial documents and imply that the baptism of desire etc is an exception to the dogma.

    Here the USCCB affirms the dogma.

    816
    "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."(2)

    There are no references in the USCCB report to the dogma whose text is available in the Wikipedia entry on extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Wikipedia, due to the Cushing Error, assumes Lumen Gentium 16 contradicts the dogma.

    Lumen Gentium only refers to the Church and the possibility in principle of a person being saved in invincible ignorance.De facto,practically, we cannot meet such a person but the USCCB does not say this and Catholics believe every one in the USA in the present times do not need to enter the Church.
    -Lionel Andrades



    1.
    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/19...d-from-jesuit/
    In a prepared statement for the press the former Jesuit added: "The conscience difficulty is that the diocese of Boston, under the auspices of Archbishop Cushing, and Boston College, under the auspices of Father John J. McEloney, S.J., both notably ignorant in the field of Catholic theology ... are teaching that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church." - Father Feeney Is Dismissed From Jesuit Order by Rome

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  2. Ralph Martin assumes that we can see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience

    Ralph Martin fails to notice that Lumen Gentium 16 is not an exception to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 which says all need faith and baptism for salvation. He also assumes that we can see the dead saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience and so LG 16 is an exception to all needing to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell, with no known exceptions on earth.

    14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. -Lumen Gentium 14


    Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7.


    Evangelisation is about being saved. The New Evangelisation must recognize doctrinally that all non Catholics on earth are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church and there are no exceptions.I cannot meet a non Catholic whom I know will be saved as an exception to AG 7,LG 14 and the dogma.

    We do not know whosoever knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary would refuse to enter could not be saved.

    Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-Lumen Gentium 14.

    So this passage does not contradict the teaching that ALL need to enter the Church for salvation.

    When Vatican Council II mentions that a person can be saved with an 'implicit intention' this is known only to God and so is not an exception to ALL needing to enter the Church for salvation.-Lionel Andrades
    http://www.renewalministries.net/files/freeliterature/freeing_the_new_evangelization.pdf

    http://www.renewalministries.net/?module=Home

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